should christians talk with the dead or a spirit they think is a person died!

[spankyb744]

  can you give me your beleives on this subject.  i know how i beleive about this but would like another tought on it.   i feel its dangerous.  but i could be wrong. thanks spankyb744

[cometsweep32]

I don't think there is anything wrong with occassionally talking to a person who is dead.  I guess as long as you don't use divination as that is a pagan ritual.  I talk to my grandmother that passed away in the year 2000.  We were very close and I love her very much.  I believe she is my guardian angel, but that of course is just my opinion.  I was so upset when she passed that I just could not go to her funeral.  The thought of seeing her dead and not alive was to much to bear.  God Bless.

Your sister in Christ,
Christie

P.S.

I am not to sure if divination is the calling of a dead person.  It could be invoking a spirit.

[talktojesus]

no talking to the dead it could open doors for the demonic ....Deb

[LuvsSoaring]

I believe the question regards sorcery rather then those you knew and loved that had passed. Galatians 5:19 mentions sorcery when you follow the desires of a sinful nature.  Revelations 22:15 Outside the city are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idol worshippers and all who love to live a lie.   In the Sermon on the Mount (see Matthew 5:4) Jesus said God Blesses those who mourn! There is a hugh difference between mourning a loved one and sorcery.
Sorcery is defined as the use of power gained from the assistance or control of evil spirits. Witchcraft is considered sorcery.
I lost my dad a few years ago and I still thank him everyday for dedicating his life to Jesus and leading me in the right path.
 

[WingzOfPrayerP]

In my teen years I got involved in Oujia boards, seances and such. Talking to spirits, the dead or anything of that nature is to open a door to the devil. I remember one night in bed I woke up to a room that was sooooooooo cold........and it was summer. I KNEW......I knew......someone was in the room. I turned to see who was there and it was the devil! Before God this is the truth! He was dressed in black......I couldn't see his face......but I knew who it was.....the presence of evil was so strong. I remembered my Sunday school teacher saying that the neame of Jesus makes the devil flee so I started saying the name of Jesus over and over. The room grew warm again and when I opened my eyes the room was empty. Earlier that evening we had drawn a pentagram, lit candles and called on spirits to appear of dead people. We opened a door that lead to places we knew nothing about. Anytime we start seeking advice of dead loved ones.....instead of Jesus... we open a door for the devil to take advantage of. Evil spirits can pose as loved ones and give us bad advice. We open the door for the devil to get a foothold in our lives. My personal belief is when a loved one who is saved dies he/she is in heaven NOT walking around earth waiting to talk to us.

[cometsweep32]

Wow!  What a horriffic experience that must have been.  I can only imagine what that must have felt like to see the devil!  I used to dabble into witchcraft before I became born again.  I once messed with a Ouija board and was communicating with a lost loved one, or so I thought.  From the time I did that until the time I became saved again, bad things starting happening and I felt this evil presence.  I have not felt that since I turned my life over to Jesus.  Thank you for sharing this piece of information.

your sister in Christ,
Christie

[WingzOfPrayerP]

You are very welcome. Messing with things we do not understand can have some terrible results. Thank God He has set me free from that! 

[Blainepyle88]

WOW!! I enjoy reading it

[spankyb744]

THANKS ALL OF YOU FOR INSIGHTS  GAVE ME ALOT TO THINK ABOUT     ALL THIS WERE WHAT I THOUGHT I SAW IN THE BIBLE TOO. AND IM NOT SURE THAT SPIRITS THAT TALK TO US ARENT SATANIC.  MY FREIND WHO WAS MY SISTER INLAW DIDNT EVEN TALK TO ME.  I JUST KNEW HER SPIRIT WAS THERE AND IT IT WAS GONE. AND I KNEW SHE HAD PASSED.  THANKS AGAIN DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS IN CHRIST.  THE SPANKSTER

[BlondeChickInNC7]

I have wondered about this not really for myself but because you see sooo many things in the "world" with people believing they can contact the dead etc. so I did some research in the Bible and this is the conclusion I came to but before I say it I want to say this...I'm new so I don't really know how differences of opinion are handled here so this is what I believe and I am in NO WAY saying anyone else has to believe as I do...

I'm not sure right off the exact verses because its been a while since I looked up anything on this particular subject but maybe someone else does but what I believe is any spirit you(or whoever)encounters is NOT that humans spirit. It is either an angel or a demon/satan.

For example if I saw my dead grandmother I believe it is satan trying to mess with my mind because if GOD wants to give me a message I believe he would either send it in the form of a dream or an angel just like what happened with many people in the Bible.

[talktojesus]

For example if I saw my dead grandmother I believe it is satan trying to mess with my mind because if GOD wants to give me a message I believe he would either send it in the form of a dream or an angel just like what happened with many people in the Bible.

I Agree

Deb

[CanuckLynn]

I also agree with you Kimberly!  I believe the same way you do.

love,
Georgie

[maathoth]

I don't think a person should call the dead to themselves. I believe when people die, they sleep and drift. I also believe they occasionally wake up. These are the times when the dead may try to contact the living.
The problem is that you need to be sure if it is the dead, or a demon. Who can say for sure? That is the problem with speaking with the dead. Only the Almighty knows for sure which it is.
I believe if God wants you to receive a message from someone you love, who passed on; that the Lord Himself will Bless you with a dream, and He will be in it. There would be no question as to the fact that the dead person in the dream is, in fact that dead person. I also believe that when you awake from the dream, if you feel uneasy about it, that it was not God who brought forth the message. Rather you would know for sure, because God's Blessings would be with you, even when you awoke.
I also believe that an occasion for this would be very rare, indeed. With God all things are possible, so it is possible, under circumstances God would permit it. Again, very rare circumstances, I am sure, would have to be in place for such a thing to occur, with God's Blessings.
One thing is certain, never seek the dead. It would lead to confusion and perhaps deep illusion, as an end result, if done.
Hope it helps some...

God's Blessings,
Barbara

[tervana1]

Uhhmmm... I'm afraid I wholeheartedly disagree with you Barbara. Jesus tells the thief on the Cross "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise". Luke 23:43  He doesn't say we will be sleeping or not aware that we are in His Mighty Presence. The Bible teaches that a Believer in Jesus Christ goes directly to be with the Lord in heaven when he or she dies, but there are some groups that teach otherwise. There are some people who believe in something they call "soul sleep," which means they believe both the soul and body are in a kind of limbo, or "sleep" until the resurrection. The body does sleep in the grave while awaiting resurrection but our spirits and souls are in Heaven with our Lord. Hallelujah!           
 
Jesus made it very clear in His story of the rich man and Lazarus the beggar, that both the righteous dead and the unrighteous dead are fully conscious after death, even though their bodies were buried in the grave (Luke 16:19-31).  Jesus does NOT say that this is a parable, but instead says, "a certain rich man" and "a certain beggar" to indicate that these are actual people.  Also, when Jesus raised Jairus' daughter from the dead, it says "her spirit came again, and she rose," which indicates that her spirit had already left her body.

Then what about when Jesus said, "she is not dead, but sleeps," and "Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go that I may awake him out of sleep"?  There are places in Scripture where death is referred to as "sleep" but it is only referring to the physical BODY being asleep, and that body will be "awakened" at the resurrection.  Notice, in Matthew 27:52, it says the "BODIES of the SAINTS who had fallen asleep were RAISED" - it is not their bodies and souls.  To Jesus, who is the very "Resurrection and the Life," death does seem like mere sleep, but that does not give us any grounds to teach a doctrine of "soul sleep" (see John 11:11-25).

I do agree with you about not contacting the dead. Never ever are we to do that. We all know the many scriptures speaking against it. I feel so sorry for the people that feel the need to talk to loves ones that have passed on. Why can't we just be content in the fact that if they died knowing Jesus, we will be with them for eternity. What a glorious time that will be.

love,
terri   

[maathoth]

Hi Terri,

I believe that in that verse when Jesus tells the thief that he will be with him in paradise, that the comma is misplaced. When the Bible was written, there were no commas or punctuation placed. I believe that the scripture reads, "I tell you the truth today, you will be with me in paradise." In which case the Lord is telling him that day, not that the thief will go to heaven that day.

Also, in Hebrews Ch 9 Vs 27 it says: "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:". How can we enter heaven without the judgement first? I always thought there were two judgements. The judgement which is the Great White Throne judgement for the wicked, and the judgement where the righteous will be rewarded.

In Revelation Ch 20 vs 11-15. "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Everyone must be judged, before entering the Kingdom of God, to either damnation or to everlasting life.

I believe that we sleep after we die, until the judgement of the dead and the living, when Christ returns for us.

In first Thessalonians Ch 4 Vs 13-17 it says: "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

You are right about the fact that people should place their faith in the Lord and be content when someone dies.

Love,
Barbara

[tervana1]

Great discussion Barbara!

I disagree with your interpretation of Luke 23:43. Jesus was hours away from death when He spoke those words so when He said 'today', He meant today. I know that punctuation was added by the scholars but they do so after comparing other similar scriptures and after much research...the newer translations especially. Since this is the only passage where Jesus is recorded saying these words, it's very important to read the previous passage. 'Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into Your Kingdom."  Jesus was just about to go back to His Kingdom and He clearly tells the man 'I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

The question of what happens after death can be confusing. The Bible tells us that after the moment of death, a person is taken to Heaven or Hell based on whether he or she had received Christ as his or her Savior. For believers, after death is to be "away from the body and at home with the Lord" (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, after death means everlasting punishment in Hell (Luke 16:22-23).

I see that you and I have a different understanding of scripture and since I don't have a Divinity degree I'm unable to defend my beliefs in the way I would like to.    I can however say with confidence 'I know that I know'.   

Thanks for the conversation sis!
love,
terri 

[maathoth]

Hi Terri,

I understand about the Divinity Degree. Neither do I have one. LOL But rather, I search the Bible myself, as I am sure you do, and try to reason it out.
There is one more thing that comes to mind. In Matthew Ch 27 it speaks of the saints rising from the dead, directly after Jesus died on the cross. His death brought this about.
In verses 52 and 53, it says "And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many."
Now this being the way it happened, again it mentions that the saints were sleeping. Not only that, why if they were already in The Kingdom of God, would they rise from the grave? Doesn't make much sense. It would be like a slap in the face to the saints who rose up from the grave, to be pulled out of paradise to come back here. It happened because they had not yet been judged in the judgement of the just and the unjust.

I believe that when man was made, the breath of life came into him, and man became a living soul. Genesis states this fact. Once the breath of man goes out of his mouth for the last time, his soul does return to God directly.

But that is not to say that he does not sleep in the grave. I believe both are true. If the judgement hasn't happened yet, then a waiting period is in order.

Also, Jesus did not ascend into paradise that day. He was in his tomb 3 days. He even mentioned that he had not yet ascended to His Father in heaven. It is in John Ch 20 vs 17. Jesus says, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." that was 3 days later that he spoke to Mary Magdelene. He wasn't in paradise yet.

I am sure that God would not send the saints back through resurrection, if they were already with God in His promised Kingdom. It would be like a bad slap in the face. How horrible would that have been? But they weren't in the Kingdom yet, which is why they were fine with what had taken place.
All I have is the reasoning that was given to me. I wish I knew more, but don't.

Thanks for the conversation on this subject. It makes one think, for sure.

God's Blessings,
Barbara

[tervana1]

Hi again Barb!

You make many good points. In your statement..."Also, Jesus did not ascend into paradise that day. He was in his tomb 3 days".  Jesus' body was in the tomb for three days. John 19:30 says..'When He had received the drink, Jesus said, "It is finished." With that, He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.'  This passage confirms that while Jesus' body did still hang on the cross, His Spirit went to be with the Father.

In response to a few of your statements it's important to note that Jesus was very busy during the three days his body lay in the tomb. He obviously wasn't sleeping. He went to Sheol. Sheol/ Hades is a realm with two divisions (Matthew 11:23; 16:18; Luke 10:15; 16:23; Acts 2:27-31), the abodes of the saved and the lost. The abode of the saved was called Paradise and “Abraham's bosom.” The abodes of the saved and the lost are separated by a "great gulf fixed" (Luke 16:26). When Jesus ascended to Heaven, He took the occupants of Paradise (believers) with Him (Ephesians 4:8-10). The lost side of Sheol / Hades has remained unchanged. All unbelieving dead go there awaiting their final judgment in the future. Did Jesus go to Sheol / Hades? Yes, according to Ephesians 4:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.

Your point about Matthew 27:52-53 is a good one. This scriptures have been argued by theologians for centuries. My personal opinion is that Jesus was making a never ending statement of His power and abilities. He needed to make it clear to all who witnessed the event of His death to see His power in action. In the same way the curtain was torn from top to bottom. Mat 27:51 and the earthquake that followed. Since most did not believe Jesus was the Messiah these events, the walking saints, the darkness over the whole land, the tearing of the Temple curtain and the earthquake...all were done to prove to us God is God and His Son's death on the cross was done for all to receive salvation. Pretty awesome events huh?

love,
terri

[maathoth]

Hi Terri,

 The problem is that Jesus made it plain He did not ascend to His Father, 3 days later. It is in John Ch 20 vs 17. Jesus says, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father:"
  Why would Jesus make this statement, if He did ascend to His father?
  As you said, Jesus was busy, but He was not in paradise those 3 days. He simply hadn't yet entered paradise, nor did He return to His Father.
  It is ok though, and we all believe somewhat different than the next person does. It makes no difference although, because if a matter is important enough, whoever is seeing improperly, will be made to see by our Lord, when it is time.
  Also, I am sure that Jesus loves us all, and in no way would our beliefs on this subject hinder either one of us from entering God's Kingdom. This is really all that matters. That our hearts are with the Lord, and that we do our best to live for Him, and to bring glory to Him, daily. Nothing else really matters.
  When it comes to discussing matter where people don't agree, usually these matters never do get cleared up. This has been my experience with most folks. And again, it is ok.
  So at that, I am letting this go, because you are my sister and friend. I love you Terri, no matter how we view certain subjects.

Your sister in Jesus,
God's Blessings,
Barbara

[tervana1]

Whew....I'm so glad sis!  No matter where each of are in our walk with the Lord, we are always learning and growing. I pray I never stop learning until the day I meet Jesus face to face. Difference of opinion or how we interpret scripture doesn't mean we are not on the same page as far as loving our Lord goes. And I love you too sis! 

love,
terri

[maathoth]

Love you too Terri!!! 

Barbara

[debomama52]

Wow!!  Great discussions sisters!! I thoroughly enjoyed reading it all!!  Y'all are awesome!!

[wifeofalogger]

Lol u Two are grate loved reading glad sisters of the Lord don't come to  . But I have a ?. I have always been able to tell when something was going to happen. I dream it or feel it and sometimes its a good feeling and sometimes its a bad feeling. ( And No I don't summons the dead.) But allot time I dream someone dies before they die and allot times this has been like a month before hand I always pray when this happens but its like something or someone is getting me ready for it The other times I feel someone need me before they call. I have even seen things take place a day before it really happened. I knew I was going to be in a wreck before I was and yes its a Erie feeling and not always pleasent. But for some reason the Lord talks to me this way or my Garden angel I am not sure  when this is going to happen I just wake up and have had a dream. But i am not always asleep when I see thing and hear things and when it happens its so real I have told my husband did u know this person or that was in a truck or car wreck or died and he say no. I have even been mad at a girl I use to work with for coming to work because I thought she told our manger at the time her brother had been in a truck wreck the night before and I heard all the details of it and no i did not know this person very well or her brother at all. But I was upset because she was staying at work and not being with her family.I told my husband that day about it when he picked me up for lunch he said not to worrie my self about it. It was not my place so I let it go Welllllll The wreck had not happened yet it happened that next night right where I heard her say it was and he was drunk and threw from truck and truck landed on him and killed him just as I heard her say the day before. I was so up set I called my husband and talk threw this with him. I have seen my cousins deaths my uncles and grandfather not real seen his but felt it when it happened can u please explain this to me. Its like the Lord told me to talk to u all about this I don't tell allot people because I am afraid they will think I am crazy. And who knows maybe I am lol  My grandmother says its because of my Indian Blood my grate grandmother had it. Well this don't scare me anymore I just go with the flow of things now. As best as I can But still dont realy understand it anymore now that I'm 45 then I did when I was a Kid. So I just say its a gift from the Lord and when it happens I say Lord I don't understand Please help me with this.      I know "I rambbled on" but I want you to get the feeling of what I have seen and heard. Where maybe u can help me understand this or the Lord can work threw you to help. Thanks Wifeofalogger

[debomama52]

Wifeofalogger, I believe you are having visions and there is nothing Satanic about that.  I too have visions and it is a gift of God, one that you really need to pray about and get in tune with the Holy Spirit.  Visions has been a gift given to many of the women in my family, but they did not know what to do about is.  Some thought they were cursed and it was not to be discussed.  I pray a lot that God will continue sending me the visions and that I become better equipped to deal with them.  I pray for discernment and wisdom on how to interpret them.  You have been given a wonderful gift from God, feel blessed for it, and accept it!  God loves you and it is nice to meet you!!

[maathoth]

Hi wifeofalloger,

  I also have known things to happen, prior to their happening. It leaves you with a strange and kind of lonely feeling. I sometimes even knows who is calling when the phone rings. LOL
  There is the mention of the gifts of the Spirit in I Corinthians Ch 12. It is a great chapter to read. I have re-read it more times than I can count. Among these gifts is the discerning of spirits, gift, and the gift of prophecy. Looks like you have either both gifts or one of them.
  You mentioned that now that you are older, you just go with the flow of things. I also do this, and seems my gifts are heightened when I do so. I walk with God daily, and when our walk is closer to God, the more God will use us with the gifts he has given us.
  Perhaps the next time you receive a dream with a warning about someone, and you feel a connection to anyone having to do with that dream, or vision, you may want to voice what your dream revealed to you, to that person. That may help someone avoid something terrible; about to take place. This way your gift would be put to good use. If the person you are telling the vision or dream to, doesn't believe you, all you can do is your best. Don't worry about it, pray about it! Let God's will be done.
  Stay close to the Lord and He will grow closer to you.

God's Blessings,
Barbara
 

[tervana1]

Well girlfriend, you have what the blessed call the gift of prophetic discernment! Deb and Barbara are right, praise God for it, embrace it and listen to the exact Words the Holy Spirit is giving you. Even the saint's that have these gifts must always test their dreams and visions. Take each and every occurrence to the Lord in prayer and have Him tell you if He is the one that has given them to you. The gifts God has given to each of us can still be attacked by the enemy and it's imperative to take each one to the Father before acting. Commitment to your faith and a close walk with Jesus will allow your discernment to be clear. Your visions are amazing sis! Having an awake vision is far more unusual than one where were dreaming. Joyce Meyer said once that it's so unusual she only knows a hand full of people it has happened to. I'm so glad you shared your story with us. You are truly blessed.

love,
terri

[Buf1923]

WOW, IS WHAT I CAN ONLY SAY.  I REALLY ENJOYED READING THIS POST. SURE MAKES US WANT TO GET IN THE WORD OF GOD TO SEE WHAT HE REVEALS TO US.  THIS WAS GREAT. 

[wifeofalogger]

Thank you all for the support. And Info on this. It make me feel better to know you all don't think I'm crazy. can anyone tell me if there is a gift where you can pray to the lord and take someone else pain in to your body to give them relief from it. I know this going to sound totally strange and I hope you all don't list me as a loony bug. My husband has told me not to tell anyone this because make me sound crazy. There has been times when someone is hurting I have prayed for them and ask the lord to take their pain away. I have ask him to use my body as a filter so to speak and take their pain and pass threw me to give that person relief of his or here pain. I not talking about curring anyone just take some their pain away where they can live with it. I have did this on like 4 people and I am fine after but they act like they feel better but that evening or next morning I wake up and can't hardily move I hurt so bad But after a couple days this will pass and the person I have prayed for has said their pain is almost gone. for example ( My dad had cancer we lost him two years ago December 28th in Oct I went to stay with my dad and he was in so much pain I prayed to the Lord to please remove his pain. If he could at lest take his pain away enough my dad could live his last few months with out pain I would take as much of his pain as my body could bear. I prayed the Lord give me strength to take his pain away and give him peace. My dad went to sleep said he felt little better. I awoke in the middle of the night hurting so bad I could Hadley move but I said Lord give me strength I know you are beside me. My dad woke up that morning and he said I feel good can not hardily tell I have pain at all. My stepmom seen I was moving slow she ask what wrong with you. I told her I had prayed to take some dad pain. She said you are crazy you can't take your dad pain. and don't ever do that again its evil. I told her I did it 3 times before and it always worked and I can live with the pain if it helps them. She said it don't help them you just think it do's and you make your self sick thinking this. I'm sorry I know what I feel and I know What the person act like I pray for. and how they say they feel after words. My dad died a couple months later but he never cried with the pain before his death like he did before I prayed for him. I believe the Lord hears me and this is not evil. But I need other believers to tell me what they think or if they think I'm as crazy as my stepmom thinks lol.

[Ljclaire]

You should see from this that God hears your prayers so why pray and ask for pain.  In the same amount of effort that you ask for this you could simply pray for them to receive their healing.  Praise God.  Try it and then you will not have the pain.  God does not give  the pain to you or the ones you are praying for but in asking for the pain you are allowing the one that gives the pain to give it to you.  I would not think that would be a window I would want to open.  Just my opinion.  Pray about it.  laurie